Disbudding Experiences - Paste

Both of my new kids were disbudded yesterday. The buck already had pretty large buds pushing up. The doe's were definitely smaller, but you could easily see and feel them. I shaved their heads and decided I was going to give Dr. Naylors Disbudding Paste a chance. All the goat people I asked said, "No no, don't use it!" When I asked them why, they generally said that they had never used it themselves, but thought it sounded cruel. Some said they had heard it leaves scurs frequently. I heard from one or two people that they used it on a regular basis, and that if done properly it was extremely effective and it was less bothersome to the kids than burning with an iron. Still others felt it was too dangerous, due to the fact that if it got into their eyes it could blind them. Here are my experiences with it, since its hard to find any reviews of using paste from goat people. If you look for information concerning cattle you'll find a ton of cattle people use it, and very effectively.

I didn't don gloves because I forgot to buy some, and decided to be very careful. Perhaps that was stupid, because I did get a small smudge on my hand, but I wasn't burned. People act like the stuff is molten lava, but it takes a few minutes to start burning I think. I left it sit on my skin for about two minutes before simply splashing a little vinegar on my hand, then rinsing with water. I felt a slight tinge, like I had rubbed a jalapeno on my skin, but it didn't damage my hand or hurt. As soon as the vinegar hit, the sensation halted immediately.

Continuing the tale of my experience, I used a popcicle stick to to apply a thin layer to the button, and in a cirlce about the size of a penny around the button. I didn't make it so thin it was transparent. I wanted to make sure I had enough to do an effective job. I made sure it was thick enough that you could see the orange color throughout, but no thicker than I needed it. I then duct taped a "helmet" on their heads. I put tape over the buttons and under the chin, then I attached tape to that which went around behind the ears...kind of criss-crossed to be very secure. We then allowed them to frolick around the barn while we watched them carefully and started a countdown. I let the stuff sit for the full thirty minutes and checked their heads. It didn't seem like long enough, although it had burned all the hair off the spots. We left it on for a full hour on the buck, and about 45 minutes on the girl. They didn't seem to be in any pain, although they shook their heads a little at first. It seemed more from having the duct tape all over their heads, however. After a few minutes they went about exploring the heck out of the barn. It was not stressful for them and they were fine. The stuff isn't runny, so it isn't hard to keep it out of the eyes as long as you make the duct tape bandages for them.

We rinsed thoroughly with vinegar by holding them upside down, with their legs in the air. Then we followed with water and repeated twice. We had to use an icky throw away cloth to completely rub off all the goop. The result was very white skin, they way your skin looks if you stick your finger on a burner. About an hour later it was very pink. Today it was blood red, but there was no actual blood. It was very clean, and they went right back to playing and nursing when we put them back from mom. The vinegar wash neutralized the acid very well and mom has no marks on her udders from leftover chemicals. Now to see if scurs form. The thing is, I currently have two I bought from other breeders who have scurs. They were burned with irons. In fact, Pearl has a scur, although it is very tiny. Tomahawk seems to be growing pretty significant ones, but I'm hoping they stop where they are. It just proves that you can mess up with any method, and that even if you don't mess up scurs can still manage to show up. I'll update on if they have any horn growth in the future or not, but it is looking super promising. I think some people may put the paste on the buds only and neglect the ring of skin around the button, where the horn actually grows. Missing that will net you horn growth.

I have decided on names for both of my new kids. Both will need Tualatin Acres placed in front of their names, as they were the farm who bred the doe. I certainly don't mind. I really like the place, and they have gorgeous animals. The woman showed me some young kids the day I picked up my does, as well as a gorgeous and immensely spacious black doe who had just kidded and sold with her babies. If I had more room and money I would have been sorely tempted to buy both her and a few of the kids. Alas, I do not, but am very happy with Pearl and Dakota. More than happy, actually. I'm near ecstatic about Pearl's amazing udder and the gorgeous kids she gave me. Now I just need the service memo from the ranch so that I can have the babies registered. I've sent a couple of emails over the last week, but no response. If I don't hear back by next weekend I'll be trying to track down a phone number.

In any case, back to the naming of Pearl's kids. I decided that the buckling will be Tualatin Acres Flying Dutchman, and the doeling will be Tualatin Acres Jolie Rouge (Pronounced shjolie roushe..at least the best way I can explain the pronunciation.) Mom's name is Black Pearl, which makes me think she was named after the cursed ship in the first Pirates of the Caribbean movie. The Flying Dutchman is Davy Jones ships in the 2nd and 3rd films. Jolie Rouge means "Pretty Red" in French. Originally, pirate flags were red, to signify the bloodshed that would occur should ships refuse to surrender. The French called them "Pretty Red", being a little sarcastic I suppose. No one knows where Jolly Roger came from, which is what you call a pirate flag now, but I imagine it came from the British or other cultures slaughtering the French "Jolie Rouge." I just though it was perfect for her. Piratey, in relation to her mom's name...but beautiful and feminine. Pretty and dangerous at the same time, and with some great history. I am calling them "Dutch" and "Jolie" for short. No one else says Jolie right. They make a hard J sound, when it has a French flair at the beginning, a kind of shhh...

I also finished building a second pen today. I was really happy to get it done. My buck pen is out of commission until I go find an appropriate roll of chicken wire-type mesh to secure over the panels. Tomahawk is just too small, and can wiggle through the holes. So, I've been having to rotate him every couple of days with the two young girls I don't want bred. They take turns in the dog kennel, but I feel bad because it is small and I don't like to use it for more than a kidding pen or a quarantine for sick animals. So, I finished a bigger pen next to my barn with ample room to play and lean-to for shade. Not that he is being bucky in the least, but although he might not be mentally capable he is physically. You never know when it might click. I have him out with my last pregnant doe and a doe I sold that is waiting to be picked up. The new owner requested if I could leave her out with the buck in the off chance he might breed her. I doubt he will, but it teaches him social skills with the ladies.

I was petting him today, and I felt an odd lump. I thought tick at first, and parted his fur to investigate. I saw something bronze and shiney, so I picked it out of his side, where it was partially buried. It was a BB pellet! Someone had shot my goat! I was furious. I knew exactly who did it as well. We have had some new neighbors within the last few months. They bought the house next door, and promptly let some weird guy rent their garage. Or maybe its the wife's brother, I don't know. In any case, he is a backwoods redneck. He gives nice rednecks a bad name. I had a little trouble keeping my goats from getting in their field for a few weeks, and he took to shooting a shotgun up in the air when they crossed the line. I was scared he would kill them. I got an electric line up that kept them out, and they haven't been in their field for over six months. I was pissed anyways. Although they shouldn't be in his field, he could have came and talked to me about it rather than go for a gun. That, and half the time I didn't know they were getting over because they would come back before I saw them.

Well, I had my buck in the dog kennel and he was throwing a noisy fit. Apparently he got irritated and decided shooting it with a BB gun was appropriate. I went over and asked him if he knew who had done it, to which he played dumb. There is no other neighbor anywhere close, and our field is very closed in and far from any roads. It was him, no doubt. I informed him that I was almost finished with the new pen, that if the goat irritated him he needed to discuss it with me like a normal human being, and that I would be watching him. If I found another pellet in any of my animals or witnessed him shooting at my goats I would call the police immediately. He just tried to look retarded. Or maybe he is. I don't know. But there is no excuse for that kind of behavior. Tomahawk wasn't hurt in anyway, and it was no more than a scratch..I think the pellet was more stuck in his fur than anything.. But that is still unacceptable. Sorry for ranting, I am just still very angry. I won't be using the dog kennel again any time soon, but I want to I don't think I should feel like I shouldn't for fear my animals might be shot at! Maybe I should shoot his damn dog next time it scales the fence into our field and starts chasing my poor goaties. Not that I ever would hurt it, unless it actually was in the process of viciously attacking something. Le sigh. Why couldn't we get civilized neighbors?

New Babies!

Pearl kidded last night at 9:30 p.m. I have been checking my pregnant girl's ligaments in the morning and night when I go to the barn to feed. I had noticed that Pearl's were feeling pretty loose the night before, but they were still fairly easy to feel and I didn't want to separate her from the herd prematurely. I checked her first thing the next morning, and they were still faintly there. She was eating and acting normal. At 1 p.m. I went in to check her again, and her ligaments were complete gone. Her udder had also tightened considerably.

I put her in the kidding stall and checked her constantly throughout the day. She didn't seem to be terribly uncomfortable at all. She stood in her pen bleating very softly and looking at her tummy on occasion. I finally saw contractions at about 7:30, but she didn't seem to be in allot of pain or distress. She started pushing a little at 9:30, standing up, and after a few minutes she went down and got to work. It only took about 15 minutes for both kids to be born. They were lively and up within another 15 minutes and were nursing almost immediately. I was extremely happy to have zero complications with the birth, and strong kids! I've already spent plenty of time nursing failing kids through the night this year, and pulling very stuck babies! A smooth delivery was great, and earned Pearl a "keeper" star. I was super impressed by her body capacity, width of her rear stance, and elegant head and neck from day one. The stunning udder this girl filled along with her ease of kidding has cemented her a place on my mini farm. I'm glad I sold off my grade does, particularly Witch. She had several flaws, which resulted in the horrendous time I had with her triplets this spring. Without further ado, some photos of the new arrivals:

Pearl's buckling and first born of the two. (Above and Below)

It is nearly impossible to get a newborn into a stance that properly shows conformation, but I think this is a pretty decent photo. It does make his neck look a little shorter and coarse than it is because he kept wanting to look at me. However, I think he would make a nice buck prospect. I really wanted a quality buckling out of this doe, because I need a second one and she is so amazing all around. However, I also got this stunning doe out of her that I just can't see myself parting with:

How flashy! She is also a little more level out the rump than this, but she was just preparing to scrunch up due to my approaching dog. She is extremely uphill, very feminine and elegant....great rear leg angulation. Just stunning. I really don't need to keep a doe and a buckling from the same kidding, however. I really have to make my mind up on this one. I might just take them both to a show in July and see if that helps me make up my mind after getting input from three or four judges.

I also seem to have gotten the scouring in my two doelings under control. Scour Halt did the trick, and keeping them out of the alfalfa seems to be keeping it at bay. Of course my buckling started scouring after all of that, due to my husband throwing alfalfa to the goats (because he has selective hearing and didn't listen to me tell him not to.) Now that I know the cause, I started him on a two day treatment of the Scour Halt. I need to wash his little white bum however. White goats.....Why did I get a nearly pure white goat?

I am CUTE and I know it!

Scour Nightmare!

I just can't shake this episode of scours that my doe kids are having. Both Val and Narf had liquid diarrhea a couple of days ago, after some success with the Pepto Bismol. I obviously can not continue giving them Pepto constantly, especially if the problem is deeper than rich feed. I separated them from food for 24 hours to see if it helped. It seemed to somewhat, but still no real pellets. So now I'm treating them with Scour-Halt to see if that does me any good. It treats for E. Coli. Le sigh. Next option will be to send poo samples to a vet. Problem is, vets around here look at goats like someone might look at a Rubix cube. They don't know what to do with them.

I am, however, excited to say that Tomahawk's legs are improving. He has been out in the field on an off with the pregnant girls, learning to socialize with women without the risk of knocking anything up I don't want bred at the moment. In the short time I have had him, they seem to have straightened up considerably. The photo I have of him as a very young kid showed very straight legs from behind. I'm guessing they were somewhat weak due to being penned up constantly. I'm not sure how he was being raised, but its a good explanation. I got my ADGA handbook finally, and was reading a section in which it pointed out that some bucks can have weak legs simply because of the fact they were raised in small areas with a lack of exercise. This can cause them to tilt in or out or look crooked. He certainly has had plenty of room to roam, and I can definitely see a change. Its extremely encouraging, and his hocks have gone from moderate to slight. I think I'll start hand-walking him a few times a week up and down the road for some additional leg strengthening, to see if that helps him. He is still young enough that he is certainly developing, and I think any weaknesses caused by confinement and lack of strength can still be helped.

No photos today. I'll have new ones of Narf up soon, as I took a photo shoot of her last week. I also clipped Pearl today, and plan to take more photos soon. Still no new kids. I think that Pearl might really hold out until June after all, based on her development. :)

My First Show Experience!

I would have posted sooner, but I have been both busy and exhausted all weekend. I got up at 6 a.m. on Saturday. Check-in was supposed to be between 6-8, with the show starting at 9. Well, I happened to have a floral order for that day for a funeral, and I couldn't deliver it before 7. I had made it the day before, so I rushed about getting properly dressed for the show, digging out my dog chains, etc. I got the arrangement at the church at 15 minutes past 7 and rushed towards Grants Pass. I arrived about fifteen minutes past 8, worrying I was too late to check-in. The woman told me not to fret, that they were allowing check-in all the way up to 9. I wish I would have known that sooner, but was relieved at the same time. It was very laid back. I'm used to horse shows, which are a little more stressful. At a horse show, its gets very political, and people are all trying to look better or more professional than everyone else. You catch a lot of flack if you don't be pretty professional about how you do things, and that includes the judge's impressions of you.

I almost felt silly worrying about my clothes. You are supposed to wear all white, but I had to settle for clean blue jeans and a nice white shirt with a collar. I figured I had half of my attire correct. Only two competitors were wearing all white, and most of the people were showing in frumpy jackets and ragged jeans. About a third of the exhibitors hadn't clipped their animals. I immediately felt more relaxed. I quickly discovered my little buckling hadn't been clipped, or worked with as far as walking and posing goes. I think he would have done much better if he was clipped, so that the hairy ridge on his back, and the mass of fur between his rear legs didn't distort his build. Also, he was nearly the worst behaved at the show when we went into the class, hunching down into a ball most of the time despite my best efforts. Unfortunately, this makes it nearly impossible for a judge to see how his built. In the one class where he finally decided to relax a little and stood up well, he got a second place ribbon. He got fourth in the other two classes. I couldn't even get his legs out in those two. He insisted on shoving them as far up under himself as he could, and ducking his head down in his own personal imitation of a turtle.

-The ONLY class where he didn't try and curl up in a ball. I think he was trying to watch something the entire class. Ignore my big ole butt. -

In any case, I am going to take him to at least one more show this summer. More if I can find any reasonably close with buck classes. So far I've only found one, the rest are does only. I am also going to be taking Narf, Dakota, and Pearl to some shows. I don't know who will go to what. It all depends on when the give birth. I don't want to take a doe on the verge of kidding to a show, and I'm not sure on the exact due dates as the previous owner had them in with the buck for four months (apparently.)

Here are photos of Tomahawk, all clipped up and posed. His hocks do turn in somewhat when viewed from behind, and he could do with stronger rear pasterns, but I like his build overall, and his breeder claims that his sire's kids always gain more length of body as they mature.

His rump looks a little steeper in the second photo as his rear legs need to be set out further. However, I really love a super level rump, and feel like he could use a little work there. That being said, his dad's rump is the same and he got allot of compliments from the judges at the show regardless. They didn't seem to mind that his rump wasn't perfectly level. I have to rotate him between the dog kennel in the field (I have a huge kennel I use as a pen), and indoor pen in the barn until he gets older. He is still too small for the buck paddock. He just squeezes through the squares in the panels. Little turd. I am still hoping for a quality buckling from one of my new girls, so he'll have a constant companion. At least his two pens are right next to common hang out areas for the girls, so he is always surrounded by other goats, he just can't touch them.

Val has some icky diarrhea. I'm not sure what is going on. I treated her for Cocci, but that didn't seem to do anything. Its green, rather than blackish or bloody...so I'm thinking its not Cocci anyways. I wormed her again, just in case. I've also been giving her Probios to help her system. I'm going to try some Pepto-Bismol. I think it might seriously just be that her diet is too rich. She has access to lush spring grass AND alfalfa. The alfalfa is actually for my pregnant does, but the kids can get to it with some effort. I need to separate the pregnant goats while they eat so the others can't get any, and I shouldn't have that problem anymore. I'll simply finish the additional pen I am working on. Its in the planning stages, but once Mother's Day week is done I should have the time to build it.